newmexicokid [8:02 PM] For more information about story walls (at least the full size ones), see http://writingjourney.org/blog/tag/story-wall/ writingjourney.org Story Wall | The Writing Journey Writing is a journey we can all share
alisuzy [8:02 PM] Hello!
newmexicokid [8:02 PM] Hey, Nelly!
johnthetech [8:02 PM] Howdy
nanosue [8:02 PM] Great, thanks. Bookmarked it.
alisuzy [8:03 PM] ditto
newmexicokid [8:04 PM] Hm... if we have 10 people, that number will fit inside a google+ hangout (for screen sharing and voice).
ellieroth [8:04 PM] joined #general
newmexicokid [8:05 PM] Hi, Ellie
ellieroth [8:05 PM] heyo!
lamaenad [8:07 PM] joined #general
newmexicokid [8:07 PM] Okay, so we have short story walls and XMind mind maps plus nap/writing balance. Any other topics?
nanosue [8:10 PM] How to turn off my editor-self during Nano. I keep thinking that if we're given a prompt and "just write" for a word war, for instance, that it will turn out to be a mess.
ellieroth [8:11 PM] maybe just in general brainstorming how to prep - how do you outline? do you use notecards? do you use xmind? basically, for plotters, what do you find helpful? I pantsed last nano and I'm hoping to actually do more prep work this year
ellieroth [8:11 PM] It's easier to edit bad writing than no writingstudent !
[8:11] *bad writing!
alkamy [8:12 PM] I'm trying to achieve balance between preparing and over-preparing. I'm freaked out that I don't know the answer to certain questions yet, but I'm thinking maybe the resolution will come to me once I start writing
newmexicokid [8:12 PM] You can download XMind from http://xmind.net (there is a free version and a paid version, but for most uses, the free is fine). XMind XMind: The Most Popular Mind Mapping Software on The Planet. Millions of people use XMind to clarify thinking, manage complex information, run brainstorming and get work organized. (50KB)
nanosue [8:12 PM] Thanks, Ellieroth. I did better last year than in the past but haven't ever "won" Nano yet. Do too much editing.
newmexicokid [8:13 PM] One thing you can do to stop yourself from editing is to use one of those special editors that only let you write but not edit.
nanosue [8:13 PM] I like the other topics that have been suggested.
newmexicokid [8:13 PM] It's a bit extreme, though.
ellieroth [8:13 PM] or write in white font so you can't look back!
nanosue [8:13 PM] Wow! That sounds good.
alisuzy [8:13 PM] oooh...that's a good idea!
bdillvarga [8:13 PM] Doesn't seem like XMind works with chromebooks....am I wrong?
nanosue [8:13 PM] Worth a try.
ellieroth [8:14 PM] if you can't help yourself because you can make NOTES to edit later like "tighten this scene" or "change POV" or "double check conversation for consistency" that you can come back to, but if you try to perfect scenes you'll just slow the creative process down
bdillvarga [8:14 PM] Tim, was your first graphic a generic one? In other words, the emotions you want the reader to feel....were they emotions for any book? or was it a mindmap youcreated?
alkamy [8:14 PM] That's awesome ellieroth
newmexicokid [8:15 PM] Barb, that first graphic was a generic mindmap, not for a specific book; it was a mindmap I created just to get a better feel for techniques to use to manipulate emotions in readers.
nanosue [8:15 PM] Yeah, Ellieroth, I do a LOT of that.
alkamy [8:15 PM] It's a great example, newmexicokid
alisuzy [8:16 PM] agreed. Thank you
nanosue [8:16 PM] Yes.
newmexicokid [8:16 PM] Barb, you're right, though I did see this: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xmind-on-rollapp/mnelfeilbjabjhaobkmakaeenpifkmep chrome.google.com XMind on rollApp XMind is a mind mapping, brainstorming and presentation tool. Structure your ideas and share inspiring mind maps with others.
bdillvarga [8:16 PM] I would be interested in how to move from general ideas to an outline. I went to the Fountaindale PUb LIbrary workshop last week and the speaker/writer talked about writing the synopsis in a google doc and working on expanding it bit by bit over time....into a 40page outline?
newmexicokid [8:16 PM] That sounds like the snowflake method.
[8:17] Mindmaps are a very good way to organically grow and organize your thoughts into an outline.
[8:17] You can drag and drop the nodes of the map, so you can quickly brainstorm and then organize later as it seems fit.
[8:18] This is my starting point for a NaNo novel. You might recognize some of these starting (closed) nodes.
ellieroth [8:18 PM] I'm working on adapting the master outline from better novel project - the creator analyzed several YA books and found the bare bone structure that connects them all
bdillvarga [8:18 PM] just accessed the XMind on rollAPP....
newmexicokid [8:18 PM] Themes, characters, plot point, ...
ellieroth [8:19 PM] http://www.betternovelproject.com/ betternovelproject.com Better Novel Project Deconstructing Bestselling Novels, One Index Card at a Time (399KB)
[8:19] http://www.betternovelproject.com/blog/master-outline/ Better Novel Project Here's a novel outline that contains the common elements of Harry Potter, The Hunger Games, and Twilight. Write a book based on this outline, made up of elements from Harry Potter, Twilight, and The Hunger Games (343KB)
newmexicokid [8:19 PM] Ooh, that looks very interesting, Ellie!
ellieroth [8:19 PM] Not sure if it would work well for non hero's quest type stories, but since mine is, I'm trying it.
[8:19] at least it's giving me something to start with, regardless of how closely I end up trying to follow it
nanosue [8:20 PM] Wow.
alisuzy [8:21 PM] I found that site the other day. cool.
newmexicokid [8:21 PM] Here is the Rosalinda mindmap with some of the nodes opened up (you just click on the + sign at the end of a node to open it): http://naperwrimo.org/xmind/tmp3.png (239KB)
bdillvarga [8:21 PM] Wow Ellie. This is REALLY cool. I think this could help me get over some hurdles.
newmexicokid [8:22 PM] With XMind, you can also copy and paste in images (e.g., characters, places, objects) into nodes for easy reference.
alkamy [8:23 PM] I came across the Better Novel Project on Pinterest. Do you all use Pinterest for your writing? Fellow writers out there (like here in this discussion!) are sharing some amazing things on Pinterest.
newmexicokid [8:23 PM] Melinda, in her workshop Saturday, showed how she uses Pinterest to plan out her novels. She relies on it heavily.
ellieroth [8:24 PM] pinterest is helpful for sure, just as a way of creating a sort of vision board
johnthetech [8:25 PM] Gotta do what works for you
bdillvarga [8:25 PM] When I go to Pinterest, I get very distracted....I find recipes, fashion....not sure I can find or could stay focused on finding tips related to writing.
newmexicokid [8:25 PM] So would people be interested in doing some mini pre story walls?
samcadams [8:25 PM] I was doing my own version of pinning and collecting images in Scivener
alkamy [8:26 PM] Yes, newmexicokid
newmexicokid [8:26 PM] Scrivener feels a little like the emacs of the novel writing world :wink:
bdillvarga [8:26 PM] I'm getting into Scrivener but realize there's a lot I don't know about it yet. I am taking a Udemy course on how to use it!
alisuzy [8:26 PM] Is Scivener good?
alkamy [8:27 PM] I'm obsessed with Scrivener
nanosue [8:27 PM] I don't use Scrivener yet.
newmexicokid [8:27 PM] alkamy, See if you can abstract what you have of your novel idea into 7 sentences and then specify the areas you need help with; ones you have questions for us on.
alisuzy [8:27 PM] It's more for planning with writing projects, right?
newmexicokid [8:28 PM] If you have an image online, you can paste in the URL (for the pre story wall).
johnthetech [8:28 PM] I'm the absolute worst kind of writer. Stream of consciousness by the seat of my pants.
newmexicokid [8:28 PM] Nothing wrong with pantsing, John.
samcadams [8:28 PM] Some people write their novels in scrivener - I just use it for planning
lamaenad [8:29 PM] Chiming in to say I use Scrivener for Nano and work both. I use about 1/10 of its features.
newmexicokid [8:29 PM] (even though I am definitely a plotter (mostly through XMind), I still do some pantsing from time to time).
ellieroth [8:29 PM] for people who like to use scene cards, this is a method Julie Hopkins (who used to be in the Journey and then moved to North Carolina) taught me:
first, divide cards into four categories: set-up, response, attack, and resolution (the four stages of your story). then, each scene in those sections gets a card. on each card you list: - characters (all present in the scene) - goal (protagonist's goal in the scene, or if you alternate POV's, the goal of your POV character in that scene) - obstacle (what gets in the way of that goal / what is the main conflict of the scene) - brief description of what happens in the scene
Resolution: (The protagonist gets or doesn't get what she wants.)
On the back of each notecard, I write what the stakes are for the characters--both the protagonist and the antagonist. Ex: Jaime's life is at stake. Uncle Jimmy's reputation is at stake.
I like having each scene on a notecard because it reminds me that each scene has a purpose and should be a complete mini story with a beginning, middle and end. It also helps me edit because some of my scenes are full of things that don't really need to be there. Im reminded of the main purpose of each scene and I revise accordingly.
[8:29] also, SCRIVENER. I love Scrivener.
newmexicokid [8:29 PM] That's very helpful, Ellie--thanks!
newmexicokid [8:30 PM] gives (reserves) Ellie a space stone.
ellieroth [8:30 PM] ??
newmexicokid [8:31 PM] One of the little craft word war prizes I made up for this year's space-exploration-themed NaNo
alkamy [8:31 PM] OK, newmexicokid... here goes: David, a Christian Conservative candidate for U.S. Senate, is shot on the campaign trail by a Muslim terrorist. But everything is not as it seems. David is really a non-believer struggling to keep his true feelings a secret from his wife and supporters. And would-be assassin, Bashir, is just a pawn in a tangled political web. Things become complicated further when David learns that life on earth is being influenced by mysterious beings who call themselves the Disembodied. Can David finally take a stand for what he truly believes in?
alisuzy [8:31 PM] Thank you Ellie!
nanosue [8:31 PM] Yes, thank you Ellie.
newmexicokid [8:31 PM] Good, short summary, alkamy. What questions do you have/areas where you need our input?
johnthetech [8:31 PM] Alkamy, I love it
ellieroth [8:32 PM] alkamy, there are risks involved in such a politically relevant plot. could be a cool story, but the stakes as an author are very high - you would need to handle your content just so.
[8:33] but yeah, plot-wise I'm definitely interested.
bdillvarga [8:33 PM] Another great tip, ellieroth
alkamy [8:33 PM] Working on the questions...
newmexicokid [8:34 PM] :slightly_smiling_face:
[8:34] Barb, by the way, looks like this is an alternative for mindmapping: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mindmup-free-mind-map-web/dnenaecjcgeppfpaokiifokeieopppej chrome.google.com MindMup - Free Mind Map web site Free online mind mapping. Google Drive or Dropbox mindmap storage, realtime collaborative mindmapping, Freemind mind map import
bdillvarga [8:35 PM] I am not generally a reader of sci fi of fantasy. I loved the story possibility that was in the real world you painted in the first 3/4 of it.
squiddish [8:35 PM] I remembered this was happening and I am here!
newmexicokid [8:35 PM] Hey, Katherine!
writingstudent [8:35 PM] Hey, Squid!
alkamy [8:35 PM] Well, the people who are "Disembodied" are in Pure Consciousness. They claim to thrive off positive emotions. But I will reveal in phases that, first, the Disembodied are behind the assassination attempt, and secondly that some actually thrive on negative emotions. One concern is how they can be beings of Pure Consciousness thriving on negative emotion. A second challenge revolves around the motives of the Disembodied.
newmexicokid [8:35 PM] We're doing pre story walls (alkamy's turn).
bdillvarga [8:36 PM] Do the Disembodied answer to or take direction from any evil human? LOL
alkamy [8:36 PM] Don't know if I'm explaining this well. It's complicated!
newmexicokid [8:36 PM] Why would the Disembodied need to claim anything from the corporeal people?
[8:37] Wouldn't they just thrive/feed off of them at will since they normally can't be perceived directly?
alkamy [8:37 PM] Good question. They can't generate their own emotions and since they are actually human, they need to 'consume' emotions somehow.
newmexicokid [8:37 PM] How does a human become disembodied?
alkamy [8:38 PM] Yes, they thrive off of them at will but have found manipulating the circumstances that create emotions to be more empowering.
[8:38] Their world was destroyed thousands of years ago. They survived by being only in pure consciousness
newmexicokid [8:39 PM] Okay--I think I get it. Those who have faded into Disembodied, they seek the emotions that make them feel real again (they don't want to exist as only pure consciousness; emotions can't be sustained in that form).
alkamy [8:39 PM] Yes
bdillvarga [8:39 PM] well, now that is a cool concept.
alkamy [8:39 PM] Thank you! bdillvarga
[8:40] ellieroth great point -- I've been nervous about that
newmexicokid [8:40 PM] It could be that they have lost the moral rudder of what makes positive or negative emotions, or the value that people place on living and their own lives. As pure consciousness, they have grown comfortably numb--they seek sensation.
alkamy [8:40 PM] Yes, I like it
ellieroth [8:42 PM] alkamy - why muslim terrorist? is that key to the plot? or could it be some other kind of political radical? you can do it, I just want to see you defend it. because if it's just as easy to switch out with someone else equally motivated, all you need is for your MC to get shot at, you may want to go with an attacker who will play less into a media trope. unless being a muslim terrorist is significant to your plot and you'll untangle all that in your novel, which if you went with muslim terrorist I feel like you need to
newmexicokid [8:42 PM] They are drawn to life, the good and the bad, the happy and the sad, the messier the better. Some may start off as trying to be noble, but they might become drunk on high emotions; and the actions of a few (to cause assassinations) quickly persuade others to join in.
[8:42] Good comment, ellieroth
newmexicokid [8:42 PM] wishes the auto-correct wouldn't auto-correct. :confused:
newmexicokid [8:43 PM] Okay--it might be good (time-wise), if we had another pre story wall to start? We can do some further brainstorming on yours, Alkamy, in the forum? I'll start a thread with the transcript from tonight.
ellieroth [8:43 PM] I get that we've had a lot of that in the news over the last few years, but there has also been lots of domestic terror from white people. e.g. the trump campaign office that just got fire bombed or whatever. churches get defaced / arsoned. there are plenty of people who aren't muslim looking to harm/threaten/etc christian conservatives. (and vice versa, yada yada)
johnthetech [8:44 PM] Yeah I don't mix writing and politics I'll be afk for a bit.
alkamy [8:44 PM] I guess it's a Muslim terrorist as a distraction from the real culprit. I will ponder whether this is a cheap trope, significant plot point or what. Great question.
[8:45] *wonder*
newmexicokid [8:46 PM] It might be good (from a book sale-ability perspective) to avoid a trope like that; anyway, just a thought.
[8:46] Any others interested in doing a pre story wall? We have about 15 minutes (at least from my availability perspective).
alkamy [8:47 PM] Thanks for the attention on my story. Totally unexpected for my first experience with this group. I really appreciation the questions, comments.
newmexicokid [8:47 PM] :slightly_smiling_face:
squiddish [8:47 PM] I should've prepped some questions that I have for my story!
newmexicokid [8:47 PM] Try to summarize it in 5-7 sentences and then brainstorm a few questions.
[8:47] it = your novel idea
[8:48] We can try to do two at once if there is someone else who also wants to start one; and we can also finish whatever we start in the forum.
[8:48] http://nanowrimo.org/regions/usa-illinois-naperville nanowrimo.org USA :: Illinois :: Naperville November 1-30. The world needs your novel.
bdillvarga [8:49 PM] I don't have a fully fleshed out idea but would it work if I gave a start to an idea and see if others could help me develop it into one?
newmexicokid [8:49 PM] Sure.
johnthetech [8:49 PM] Go for it
newmexicokid [8:50 PM] By the way, should we do a follow-up prep workshop (e.g., later this week or this weekend)?
squiddish [8:50 PM] It's actually going to be a short story. A single main character and a voice over a speaker. The character wakes up in a room they can't escape and the only other thing in the room with them is a table with drugs on it. As they're a recovering addict, it's rough. Through the story, the voice on the speaker says you have to take it in order to save my life until it's half way' so to speak and then the voice changes tone to say 'you have to stop or I will die'
alkamy [8:51 PM] Does the MC know that it's the same voice?
squiddish [8:52 PM] Yeah, they'll hear the same voice the whole way through. Mildly familiar but not placed until the end of the story.
bdillvarga [8:52 PM] The title might be; Mole City. A group of high school kids have discovered an underground system of tunnels that are seldom used except when there is a flood in town. They take old furniture down there and set up a place to hang out. Of course there's a 100 year flood in the town and the tunnel unexpectedly begins to fill.
johnthetech [8:52 PM] That's a lot of imagery going through my head about that room
newmexicokid [8:53 PM] Katherine, is it actually a recording of the main character's own voice?
johnthetech [8:53 PM] Is it more psychological thriller or mystery?
squiddish [8:53 PM] :wink: Close! At a point--towards the end--it is revealed to be the own character's voice. Not so much a recording as much as a representation of their inner voice.
newmexicokid [8:53 PM] Barb, that sounds like a great setup.
alkamy [8:54 PM] squiddish: very cool
newmexicokid [8:54 PM] "We've traced the call. It's coming from inside your house!"
squiddish [8:54 PM] It's a little less mystery and a little more indepth view on addiction and the battle of the inner voices for / against it.
newmexicokid [8:54 PM] Barb, there should be an underground lake that the flooded tunnels take some of the characters to...
johnthetech [8:54 PM] The call is coming from inside your head!
squiddish [8:54 PM] ^ hahah, exactly.
katmeow [8:55 PM] I like that a lot squidish
squiddish [8:55 PM] Thanks!
katmeow [8:55 PM] Oh they can discover treasure!
squiddish [8:55 PM] Also, I like the set up so far, Barb! Are they gonna make it out alive? (I like to assume that everyone in stories is fated for some horrible ending...)
bdillvarga [8:55 PM] I feel like I need to talk to someone in public works to understand the sewer and water systems.
alkamy [8:55 PM] bdillvarga any sense of the characters?
nanosue [8:55 PM] I vote yes about the follow-up prep workshop if you mean we'd do more pre-story walls.
bdillvarga [8:55 PM] I was thinking someone has to die
katmeow [8:56 PM] Someone always had to die.
bdillvarga [8:56 PM] Yea, some might remind you of Breakfast Club characters.
katmeow [8:56 PM] Especially if I'm having a bad day...
newmexicokid [8:56 PM] Barb, have you thought of where the main conflict will come from? Man vs. nature has to be one of them but there might be some rival gangs. Perhaps some conflict between classes (rich kids slumming and poorer kids).
johnthetech [8:56 PM] Research WWII and cold war shelters. Modern sewers don't really support people.
nanosue [8:56 PM] Good ideas Barb.
newmexicokid [8:56 PM] Any suggestions for days of the week for the follow-up workshop?
bdillvarga [8:56 PM] Yea, it's definitely a play on underground or outlier behavior, so these kids would be the rebels.
[8:57] Maybe they lure an innocent kid down there as a joke and he's the one who dies.....kind of accidentally...and now they are on the run or else arrested
squiddish [8:58 PM] Guilt and forgiveness narratives are also great~
newmexicokid [8:58 PM] One of the kids who dies should be someone with parents who care, so there is a rescue attempt mounted (perhaps there should be two stages of flooding--one that doesn't matter, which annoys kids and parents alike, and one big one, the 100 year flood).
alkamy [8:58 PM] I like that plot twist, needs to be a reason that they don't flee early on
bdillvarga [8:58 PM] Mole city actually existed in Glen Ellyn in the early 80's. I taught at GW and some of my students hung out there.
[8:58] But the village shut it down.
nanosue [8:59 PM] Sheesh, I"ve got a busy schedule. If it's an evening this week I can only do Thursday night or possibly Friday night. Busy all day Saturday. Next week looks better except for Wednesday.
newmexicokid [8:59 PM] You could even have the earlier incident be caused by a rival gang that tries to redirect water from an abandoned spillway to flood out the group's hideout.
bdillvarga [8:59 PM] Great ideas, Tim.
newmexicokid [8:59 PM] Would Friday work for folks? Or would people prefer Thursday?
squiddish [9:00 PM] Friday might work because I am actually off of work!
bdillvarga [9:00 PM] I wonder if there's a teacher who knew about the hangout place but didn't report it and now he's feeling guilty
alkamy [9:00 PM] Both work for me
newmexicokid [9:00 PM] Katherine, you should have your main character hallucinate a visitor who checks in on them (but really isn't there)
[9:01] The cool teacher who maybe told the students about the place, thinking it was a way for them to get away from the rough gang.
[9:01] (there had been bullying, maybe)
Okay, time check--it's just after 9 pm.
johnthetech [9:04 PM] Yeah! Glen Ellyn tunnels. Read the book "the girl who owned a city"
newmexicokid [9:04 PM] It is, unfortunately, pumpkin time for me (though others are welcome to stay and chat, of course!). People should feel free to come here and to schedule get-togethers.
[9:04] I'll schedule and advertise a follow-up virtual workshop for this Friday, 8 pm.
writingstudent [9:04 PM] sounds good!
bdillvarga [9:05 PM] I loved Girl who owned the city!
newmexicokid [9:05 PM] I was thinking of the Mad Scientists Club :wink:
alkamy [9:05 PM] thanks, newmexicokid, everyone!
ellieroth [9:05 PM] I'm working on a blog post about ways to take advantage of preptober - suggestions?
bdillvarga [9:05 PM] Thanks Tim! Bye all
newmexicokid [9:05 PM] Good night, Barb!
nanosue [9:06 PM] Thank you. Hope to "see" everyone on Friday.
Come to our slack channel(see the instructions on how to join the channel) Monday, October 17th, 8 PM CDT for a special virtual preparatory workshop.
We'll cover whatever people attending want to focus on. Some of the possible topics:
For those who missed it, here's the transcript of the first session. We'll do a second session this Friday at 8 pm.
newmexicokid [7:55 PM]
Hello, everyone!
[7:56]
We'll be starting things off at 8 pm.
johnthetech [7:56 PM]
Howdy
nanosue [7:56 PM]
Hi
newmexicokid [7:56 PM]
Hi, John; Hi, Susan
bdillvarga [7:57 PM]
Hi. What will be happening?
newmexicokid [7:57 PM]
(do you prefer Susan or Sue?)
katmeow [7:57 PM]
Meow meow :smiley_cat:
nanosue [7:57 PM]
I use Sue with friends so call me Sue. :slightly_smiling_face: I use Susan for things I write.
newmexicokid [7:57 PM]
Hi, Barb; we'll have a session (maybe through a google+ hangout) for part of the workshop.
[7:57]
Hi, Kat
katmeow [7:58 PM]
Hi, hope everyone is well.
newmexicokid [7:58 PM]
Wow, this has turned into a pretty big turnout.
newmexicokid [7:58 PM]
had been thinking to use appear.in, but that's limited to just 8 users.
newmexicokid [7:58 PM]
What sorts of topics are people interested in (for NaNo prep)?
johnthetech [7:59 PM]
How to balance naptime and writing.
nanosue [7:59 PM]
I like the things you'd mentioned before: mindmapping and something else.
[8:00]
Sorry, can't remember.
katmeow [8:00 PM]
Lol John, thy steal my heart
newmexicokid [8:00 PM]
(pre) story walls was the other topic I had mentioned before.
nanosue [8:00 PM]
Yes, I know nothing about story walls, much less (pre) story walls.
newmexicokid [8:00 PM]
NaNo balancing of naptime + writing = writing :wink:
alkamy [8:01 PM]
Hi!
katmeow [8:01 PM]
Hi Alkamy
nanosue [8:01 PM]
Hi!
newmexicokid [8:01 PM]
Welcome, everyone!
writingstudent [8:02 PM]
Hello everyone!
newmexicokid [8:02 PM]
For more information about story walls (at least the full size ones), see http://writingjourney.org/blog/tag/story-wall/
writingjourney.org
Story Wall | The Writing Journey
Writing is a journey we can all share
alisuzy [8:02 PM]
Hello!
newmexicokid [8:02 PM]
Hey, Nelly!
johnthetech [8:02 PM]
Howdy
nanosue [8:02 PM]
Great, thanks. Bookmarked it.
alisuzy [8:03 PM]
ditto
newmexicokid [8:04 PM]
Hm... if we have 10 people, that number will fit inside a google+ hangout (for screen sharing and voice).
ellieroth [8:04 PM]
joined #general
newmexicokid [8:05 PM]
Hi, Ellie
ellieroth [8:05 PM]
heyo!
lamaenad [8:07 PM]
joined #general
newmexicokid [8:07 PM]
Okay, so we have short story walls and XMind mind maps plus nap/writing balance. Any other topics?
nanosue [8:10 PM]
How to turn off my editor-self during Nano. I keep thinking that if we're given a prompt and "just write" for a word war, for instance, that it will turn out to be a mess.
ellieroth [8:11 PM]
maybe just in general brainstorming how to prep - how do you outline? do you use notecards? do you use xmind? basically, for plotters, what do you find helpful? I pantsed last nano and I'm hoping to actually do more prep work this year
[8:11]
Sue - embrace the mess. It
newmexicokid [8:11 PM]
http://naperwrimo.org/xmind/tmp1.png (198KB)
-- here is an example of an XMind mindmap.
ellieroth [8:11 PM]
It's easier to edit bad writing than no writingstudent !
[8:11]
*bad writing!
alkamy [8:12 PM]
I'm trying to achieve balance between preparing and over-preparing. I'm freaked out that I don't know the answer to certain questions yet, but I'm thinking maybe the resolution will come to me once I start writing
newmexicokid [8:12 PM]
You can download XMind from http://xmind.net (there is a free version and a paid version, but for most uses, the free is fine).
XMind
XMind: The Most Popular Mind Mapping Software on The Planet.
Millions of people use XMind to clarify thinking, manage complex information, run brainstorming and get work organized. (50KB)
nanosue [8:12 PM]
Thanks, Ellieroth. I did better last year than in the past but haven't ever "won" Nano yet. Do too much editing.
newmexicokid [8:13 PM]
One thing you can do to stop yourself from editing is to use one of those special editors that only let you write but not edit.
nanosue [8:13 PM]
I like the other topics that have been suggested.
newmexicokid [8:13 PM]
It's a bit extreme, though.
ellieroth [8:13 PM]
or write in white font so you can't look back!
nanosue [8:13 PM]
Wow! That sounds good.
alisuzy [8:13 PM]
oooh...that's a good idea!
bdillvarga [8:13 PM]
Doesn't seem like XMind works with chromebooks....am I wrong?
nanosue [8:13 PM]
Worth a try.
ellieroth [8:14 PM]
if you can't help yourself because you can make NOTES to edit later like "tighten this scene" or "change POV" or "double check conversation for consistency" that you can come back to, but if you try to perfect scenes you'll just slow the creative process down
bdillvarga [8:14 PM]
Tim, was your first graphic a generic one? In other words, the emotions you want the reader to feel....were they emotions for any book? or was it a mindmap youcreated?
alkamy [8:14 PM]
That's awesome ellieroth
newmexicokid [8:15 PM]
Barb, that first graphic was a generic mindmap, not for a specific book; it was a mindmap I created just to get a better feel for techniques to use to manipulate emotions in readers.
nanosue [8:15 PM]
Yeah, Ellieroth, I do a LOT of that.
alkamy [8:15 PM]
It's a great example, newmexicokid
alisuzy [8:16 PM]
agreed. Thank you
nanosue [8:16 PM]
Yes.
newmexicokid [8:16 PM]
Barb, you're right, though I did see this: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xmind-on-rollapp/mnelfeilbjabjhaobkmakaeenpifkmep
chrome.google.com
XMind on rollApp
XMind is a mind mapping, brainstorming and presentation tool. Structure your ideas and share inspiring mind maps with others.
bdillvarga [8:16 PM]
I would be interested in how to move from general ideas to an outline. I went to the Fountaindale PUb LIbrary workshop last week and the speaker/writer talked about writing the synopsis in a google doc and working on expanding it bit by bit over time....into a 40page outline?
newmexicokid [8:16 PM]
That sounds like the snowflake method.
[8:17]
Mindmaps are a very good way to organically grow and organize your thoughts into an outline.
[8:17]
You can drag and drop the nodes of the map, so you can quickly brainstorm and then organize later as it seems fit.
[8:18]
E.g., http://naperwrimo.org/xmind/tmp2.png (176KB)
[8:18]
This is my starting point for a NaNo novel. You might recognize some of these starting (closed) nodes.
ellieroth [8:18 PM]
I'm working on adapting the master outline from better novel project - the creator analyzed several YA books and found the bare bone structure that connects them all
bdillvarga [8:18 PM]
just accessed the XMind on rollAPP....
newmexicokid [8:18 PM]
Themes, characters, plot point, ...
ellieroth [8:19 PM]
http://www.betternovelproject.com/
betternovelproject.com
Better Novel Project
Deconstructing Bestselling Novels, One Index Card at a Time (399KB)
[8:19]
http://www.betternovelproject.com/blog/master-outline/
Better Novel Project
Here's a novel outline that contains the common elements of Harry Potter, The Hunger Games, and Twilight.
Write a book based on this outline, made up of elements from Harry Potter, Twilight, and The Hunger Games (343KB)
newmexicokid [8:19 PM]
Ooh, that looks very interesting, Ellie!
ellieroth [8:19 PM]
Not sure if it would work well for non hero's quest type stories, but since mine is, I'm trying it.
[8:19]
at least it's giving me something to start with, regardless of how closely I end up trying to follow it
nanosue [8:20 PM]
Wow.
alisuzy [8:21 PM]
I found that site the other day. cool.
newmexicokid [8:21 PM]
Here is the Rosalinda mindmap with some of the nodes opened up (you just click on the + sign at the end of a node to open it): http://naperwrimo.org/xmind/tmp3.png (239KB)
bdillvarga [8:21 PM]
Wow Ellie. This is REALLY cool. I think this could help me get over some hurdles.
newmexicokid [8:22 PM]
With XMind, you can also copy and paste in images (e.g., characters, places, objects) into nodes for easy reference.
alkamy [8:23 PM]
I came across the Better Novel Project on Pinterest. Do you all use Pinterest for your writing? Fellow writers out there (like here in this discussion!) are sharing some amazing things on Pinterest.
newmexicokid [8:23 PM]
Melinda, in her workshop Saturday, showed how she uses Pinterest to plan out her novels. She relies on it heavily.
ellieroth [8:24 PM]
pinterest is helpful for sure, just as a way of creating a sort of vision board
johnthetech [8:25 PM]
Gotta do what works for you
bdillvarga [8:25 PM]
When I go to Pinterest, I get very distracted....I find recipes, fashion....not sure I can find or could stay focused on finding tips related to writing.
newmexicokid [8:25 PM]
So would people be interested in doing some mini pre story walls?
samcadams [8:25 PM]
I was doing my own version of pinning and collecting images in Scivener
alkamy [8:26 PM]
Yes, newmexicokid
newmexicokid [8:26 PM]
Scrivener feels a little like the emacs of the novel writing world :wink:
bdillvarga [8:26 PM]
I'm getting into Scrivener but realize there's a lot I don't know about it yet. I am taking a Udemy course on how to use it!
alisuzy [8:26 PM]
Is Scivener good?
alkamy [8:27 PM]
I'm obsessed with Scrivener
nanosue [8:27 PM]
I don't use Scrivener yet.
newmexicokid [8:27 PM]
alkamy, See if you can abstract what you have of your novel idea into 7 sentences and then specify the areas you need help with; ones you have questions for us on.
alisuzy [8:27 PM]
It's more for planning with writing projects, right?
newmexicokid [8:28 PM]
If you have an image online, you can paste in the URL (for the pre story wall).
johnthetech [8:28 PM]
I'm the absolute worst kind of writer. Stream of consciousness by the seat of my pants.
newmexicokid [8:28 PM]
Nothing wrong with pantsing, John.
samcadams [8:28 PM]
Some people write their novels in scrivener - I just use it for planning
lamaenad [8:29 PM]
Chiming in to say I use Scrivener for Nano and work both. I use about 1/10 of its features.
newmexicokid [8:29 PM]
(even though I am definitely a plotter (mostly through XMind), I still do some pantsing from time to time).
ellieroth [8:29 PM]
for people who like to use scene cards, this is a method Julie Hopkins (who used to be in the Journey and then moved to North Carolina) taught me:
first, divide cards into four categories: set-up, response, attack, and resolution (the four stages of your story).
then, each scene in those sections gets a card. on each card you list:
- characters (all present in the scene)
- goal (protagonist's goal in the scene, or if you alternate POV's, the goal of your POV character in that scene)
- obstacle (what gets in the way of that goal / what is the main conflict of the scene)
- brief description of what happens in the scene
Resolution: (The protagonist gets or doesn't get what she wants.)
On the back of each notecard, I write what the stakes are for the characters--both the protagonist and the antagonist. Ex: Jaime's life is at stake. Uncle Jimmy's reputation is at stake.
I like having each scene on a notecard because it reminds me that each scene has a purpose and should be a complete mini story with a beginning, middle and end. It also helps me edit because some of my scenes are full of things that don't really need to be there. Im reminded of the main purpose of each scene and I revise accordingly.
[8:29]
also, SCRIVENER. I love Scrivener.
newmexicokid [8:29 PM]
That's very helpful, Ellie--thanks!
newmexicokid [8:30 PM]
gives (reserves) Ellie a space stone.
ellieroth [8:30 PM]
??
newmexicokid [8:31 PM]
One of the little craft word war prizes I made up for this year's space-exploration-themed NaNo
alkamy [8:31 PM]
OK, newmexicokid... here goes: David, a Christian Conservative candidate for U.S. Senate, is shot on the campaign trail by a Muslim terrorist. But everything is not as it seems. David is really a non-believer struggling to keep his true feelings a secret from his wife and supporters. And would-be assassin, Bashir, is just a pawn in a tangled political web. Things become complicated further when David learns that life on earth is being influenced by mysterious beings who call themselves the Disembodied. Can David finally take a stand for what he truly believes in?
alisuzy [8:31 PM]
Thank you Ellie!
nanosue [8:31 PM]
Yes, thank you Ellie.
newmexicokid [8:31 PM]
Good, short summary, alkamy. What questions do you have/areas where you need our input?
johnthetech [8:31 PM]
Alkamy, I love it
ellieroth [8:32 PM]
alkamy, there are risks involved in such a politically relevant plot. could be a cool story, but the stakes as an author are very high - you would need to handle your content just so.
[8:33]
but yeah, plot-wise I'm definitely interested.
bdillvarga [8:33 PM]
Another great tip, ellieroth
alkamy [8:33 PM]
Working on the questions...
newmexicokid [8:34 PM]
:slightly_smiling_face:
[8:34]
Barb, by the way, looks like this is an alternative for mindmapping: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mindmup-free-mind-map-web/dnenaecjcgeppfpaokiifokeieopppej
chrome.google.com
MindMup - Free Mind Map web site
Free online mind mapping. Google Drive or Dropbox mindmap storage, realtime collaborative mindmapping, Freemind mind map import
bdillvarga [8:35 PM]
I am not generally a reader of sci fi of fantasy. I loved the story possibility that was in the real world you painted in the first 3/4 of it.
squiddish [8:35 PM]
I remembered this was happening and I am here!
newmexicokid [8:35 PM]
Hey, Katherine!
writingstudent [8:35 PM]
Hey, Squid!
alkamy [8:35 PM]
Well, the people who are "Disembodied" are in Pure Consciousness. They claim to thrive off positive emotions. But I will reveal in phases that, first, the Disembodied are behind the assassination attempt, and secondly that some actually thrive on negative emotions. One concern is how they can be beings of Pure Consciousness thriving on negative emotion. A second challenge revolves around the motives of the Disembodied.
newmexicokid [8:35 PM]
We're doing pre story walls (alkamy's turn).
bdillvarga [8:36 PM]
Do the Disembodied answer to or take direction from any evil human? LOL
alkamy [8:36 PM]
Don't know if I'm explaining this well. It's complicated!
newmexicokid [8:36 PM]
Why would the Disembodied need to claim anything from the corporeal people?
[8:37]
Wouldn't they just thrive/feed off of them at will since they normally can't be perceived directly?
alkamy [8:37 PM]
Good question. They can't generate their own emotions and since they are actually human, they need to 'consume' emotions somehow.
newmexicokid [8:37 PM]
How does a human become disembodied?
alkamy [8:38 PM]
Yes, they thrive off of them at will but have found manipulating the circumstances that create emotions to be more empowering.
[8:38]
Their world was destroyed thousands of years ago. They survived by being only in pure consciousness
newmexicokid [8:39 PM]
Okay--I think I get it. Those who have faded into Disembodied, they seek the emotions that make them feel real again (they don't want to exist as only pure consciousness; emotions can't be sustained in that form).
alkamy [8:39 PM]
Yes
bdillvarga [8:39 PM]
well, now that is a cool concept.
alkamy [8:39 PM]
Thank you! bdillvarga
[8:40]
ellieroth great point -- I've been nervous about that
newmexicokid [8:40 PM]
It could be that they have lost the moral rudder of what makes positive or negative emotions, or the value that people place on living and their own lives. As pure consciousness, they have grown comfortably numb--they seek sensation.
alkamy [8:40 PM]
Yes, I like it
ellieroth [8:42 PM]
alkamy - why muslim terrorist? is that key to the plot? or could it be some other kind of political radical? you can do it, I just want to see you defend it. because if it's just as easy to switch out with someone else equally motivated, all you need is for your MC to get shot at, you may want to go with an attacker who will play less into a media trope. unless being a muslim terrorist is significant to your plot and you'll untangle all that in your novel, which if you went with muslim terrorist I feel like you need to
newmexicokid [8:42 PM]
They are drawn to life, the good and the bad, the happy and the sad, the messier the better. Some may start off as trying to be noble, but they might become drunk on high emotions; and the actions of a few (to cause assassinations) quickly persuade others to join in.
[8:42]
Good comment, ellieroth
newmexicokid [8:42 PM]
wishes the auto-correct wouldn't auto-correct. :confused:
newmexicokid [8:43 PM]
Okay--it might be good (time-wise), if we had another pre story wall to start? We can do some further brainstorming on yours, Alkamy, in the forum? I'll start a thread with the transcript from tonight.
ellieroth [8:43 PM]
I get that we've had a lot of that in the news over the last few years, but there has also been lots of domestic terror from white people. e.g. the trump campaign office that just got fire bombed or whatever. churches get defaced / arsoned. there are plenty of people who aren't muslim looking to harm/threaten/etc christian conservatives. (and vice versa, yada yada)
johnthetech [8:44 PM]
Yeah I don't mix writing and politics I'll be afk for a bit.
alkamy [8:44 PM]
I guess it's a Muslim terrorist as a distraction from the real culprit. I will ponder whether this is a cheap trope, significant plot point or what. Great question.
[8:45]
*wonder*
newmexicokid [8:46 PM]
It might be good (from a book sale-ability perspective) to avoid a trope like that; anyway, just a thought.
[8:46]
Any others interested in doing a pre story wall? We have about 15 minutes (at least from my availability perspective).
alkamy [8:47 PM]
Thanks for the attention on my story. Totally unexpected for my first experience with this group. I really appreciation the questions, comments.
newmexicokid [8:47 PM]
:slightly_smiling_face:
squiddish [8:47 PM]
I should've prepped some questions that I have for my story!
newmexicokid [8:47 PM]
Try to summarize it in 5-7 sentences and then brainstorm a few questions.
[8:47]
it = your novel idea
[8:48]
We can try to do two at once if there is someone else who also wants to start one; and we can also finish whatever we start in the forum.
[8:48]
http://nanowrimo.org/regions/usa-illinois-naperville
nanowrimo.org
USA :: Illinois :: Naperville
November 1-30. The world needs your novel.
bdillvarga [8:49 PM]
I don't have a fully fleshed out idea but would it work if I gave a start to an idea and see if others could help me develop it into one?
newmexicokid [8:49 PM]
Sure.
johnthetech [8:49 PM]
Go for it
newmexicokid [8:50 PM]
By the way, should we do a follow-up prep workshop (e.g., later this week or this weekend)?
squiddish [8:50 PM]
It's actually going to be a short story. A single main character and a voice over a speaker. The character wakes up in a room they can't escape and the only other thing in the room with them is a table with drugs on it. As they're a recovering addict, it's rough. Through the story, the voice on the speaker says you have to take it in order to save my life until it's half way' so to speak and then the voice changes tone to say 'you have to stop or I will die'
newmexicokid [8:51 PM]
Sounds terrifying, Katherine!
squiddish [8:51 PM]
I hope it will be!
alkamy [8:51 PM]
Does the MC know that it's the same voice?
squiddish [8:52 PM]
Yeah, they'll hear the same voice the whole way through. Mildly familiar but not placed until the end of the story.
bdillvarga [8:52 PM]
The title might be; Mole City. A group of high school kids have discovered an underground system of tunnels that are seldom used except when there is a flood in town. They take old furniture down there and set up a place to hang out. Of course there's a 100 year flood in the town and the tunnel unexpectedly begins to fill.
johnthetech [8:52 PM]
That's a lot of imagery going through my head about that room
newmexicokid [8:53 PM]
Katherine, is it actually a recording of the main character's own voice?
johnthetech [8:53 PM]
Is it more psychological thriller or mystery?
squiddish [8:53 PM]
:wink: Close! At a point--towards the end--it is revealed to be the own character's voice. Not so much a recording as much as a representation of their inner voice.
newmexicokid [8:53 PM]
Barb, that sounds like a great setup.
alkamy [8:54 PM]
squiddish: very cool
newmexicokid [8:54 PM]
"We've traced the call. It's coming from inside your house!"
squiddish [8:54 PM]
It's a little less mystery and a little more indepth view on addiction and the battle of the inner voices for / against it.
newmexicokid [8:54 PM]
Barb, there should be an underground lake that the flooded tunnels take some of the characters to...
johnthetech [8:54 PM]
The call is coming from inside your head!
squiddish [8:54 PM]
^ hahah, exactly.
katmeow [8:55 PM]
I like that a lot squidish
squiddish [8:55 PM]
Thanks!
katmeow [8:55 PM]
Oh they can discover treasure!
squiddish [8:55 PM]
Also, I like the set up so far, Barb! Are they gonna make it out alive? (I like to assume that everyone in stories is fated for some horrible ending...)
bdillvarga [8:55 PM]
I feel like I need to talk to someone in public works to understand the sewer and water systems.
alkamy [8:55 PM]
bdillvarga any sense of the characters?
nanosue [8:55 PM]
I vote yes about the follow-up prep workshop if you mean we'd do more pre-story walls.
bdillvarga [8:55 PM]
I was thinking someone has to die
katmeow [8:56 PM]
Someone always had to die.
bdillvarga [8:56 PM]
Yea, some might remind you of Breakfast Club characters.
katmeow [8:56 PM]
Especially if I'm having a bad day...
newmexicokid [8:56 PM]
Barb, have you thought of where the main conflict will come from? Man vs. nature has to be one of them but there might be some rival gangs. Perhaps some conflict between classes (rich kids slumming and poorer kids).
johnthetech [8:56 PM]
Research WWII and cold war shelters. Modern sewers don't really support people.
nanosue [8:56 PM]
Good ideas Barb.
newmexicokid [8:56 PM]
Any suggestions for days of the week for the follow-up workshop?
bdillvarga [8:56 PM]
Yea, it's definitely a play on underground or outlier behavior, so these kids would be the rebels.
[8:57]
Maybe they lure an innocent kid down there as a joke and he's the one who dies.....kind of accidentally...and now they are on the run or else arrested
squiddish [8:58 PM]
Guilt and forgiveness narratives are also great~
newmexicokid [8:58 PM]
One of the kids who dies should be someone with parents who care, so there is a rescue attempt mounted (perhaps there should be two stages of flooding--one that doesn't matter, which annoys kids and parents alike, and one big one, the 100 year flood).
alkamy [8:58 PM]
I like that plot twist, needs to be a reason that they don't flee early on
bdillvarga [8:58 PM]
Mole city actually existed in Glen Ellyn in the early 80's. I taught at GW and some of my students hung out there.
[8:58]
But the village shut it down.
nanosue [8:59 PM]
Sheesh, I"ve got a busy schedule. If it's an evening this week I can only do Thursday night or possibly Friday night. Busy all day Saturday. Next week looks better except for Wednesday.
newmexicokid [8:59 PM]
You could even have the earlier incident be caused by a rival gang that tries to redirect water from an abandoned spillway to flood out the group's hideout.
bdillvarga [8:59 PM]
Great ideas, Tim.
newmexicokid [8:59 PM]
Would Friday work for folks? Or would people prefer Thursday?
squiddish [9:00 PM]
Friday might work because I am actually off of work!
bdillvarga [9:00 PM]
I wonder if there's a teacher who knew about the hangout place but didn't report it and now he's feeling guilty
alkamy [9:00 PM]
Both work for me
newmexicokid [9:00 PM]
Katherine, you should have your main character hallucinate a visitor who checks in on them (but really isn't there)
[9:01]
The cool teacher who maybe told the students about the place, thinking it was a way for them to get away from the rough gang.
[9:01]
(there had been bullying, maybe)
Okay, time check--it's just after 9 pm.
johnthetech [9:04 PM]
Yeah! Glen Ellyn tunnels. Read the book "the girl who owned a city"
newmexicokid [9:04 PM]
It is, unfortunately, pumpkin time for me (though others are welcome to stay and chat, of course!). People should feel free to come here and to schedule get-togethers.
[9:04]
I'll schedule and advertise a follow-up virtual workshop for this Friday, 8 pm.
writingstudent [9:04 PM]
sounds good!
bdillvarga [9:05 PM]
I loved Girl who owned the city!
newmexicokid [9:05 PM]
I was thinking of the Mad Scientists Club :wink:
alkamy [9:05 PM]
thanks, newmexicokid, everyone!
ellieroth [9:05 PM]
I'm working on a blog post about ways to take advantage of preptober - suggestions?
bdillvarga [9:05 PM]
Thanks Tim! Bye all
newmexicokid [9:05 PM]
Good night, Barb!
nanosue [9:06 PM]
Thank you. Hope to "see" everyone on Friday.
writingstudent [9:06 PM]
night everyone!
lamaenad [9:06 PM]
Good night!
newmexicokid [9:06 PM]
waves.